Sipadan Vital Accident, I hope it will be the last accident Options

[bubble]

Dive trip turns tragic
02 May 2006



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KOTA KINABALU: A dive for a Singaporean at the Sipadan Island off the east coast of Semporna turned tragic when his body was found floating at 9.30am on Sunday.

Bernard Lo Wern Eerk, 28, was part of a group of eight divers, including his fiance, on a 30-minute underwater excursion.

They were dropped off at a location known as Barracuda Point, said district police chief Deputy Superintendent Abdul Latif Ibrahim, yesterday. "When they surfaced 30 minutes later, the divemaster noticed something wrong with Lo. He pulled him into the boat, but found Lo was no longer breathing."

The body was flown home after a post-mortem at the Tawau Hospital.

[SeaDemon]

Any updates on this one?

[Scuba Sue]

I have heard, thru another message board he was diving out of Kapalai? He was found with his mask off and missing one fin, floating at the surface. This message board reported that he and his group had seen a ray at 30 meters and then they lost him. Can anyone shed any more light on this one? I think I read this on the SE Asia Scubaboard site.
My condolances to the family and the diver operator.
Susie

[taoguru]

I was on the Sipadan island having morning tea-break after 1 early dive when the fatal incident happened. But one of my colleagues who was in another group discovered the victim first at 22meter in Barracuda Point.

The fact I gathered from the DM who tried to revive him is that the victim got lung-burst injury. Apprently he shot-up to surface holding his breathe after he got panic when his group left him alone underwater.

He might be trying to catch up with his group and lost one of his fins when kicking too fast. That might explain he got panic and shot-up to surface.

He didn't die on the spot. When he was sent to the hospital, he still got very weak heartbeat.

I was also told that was his only 5th dive after got certified. I don't understand why nobody in the group was watching closely the fresh new diver, not to mention his fiancee who is more experienced than him.

[tupai]

my condolences to the family.

The question why no one was watching out for him, to me, rest solely 60% on the Dm and 40%his buddy.

Newbie or born-again divers (like myself) will always have a fear of being left behind alone in a very disorientated environ...made worst if there was a strong current (Barracuda Pt has unpredictable current, as what i have experienced 4days ago).

I believe that listening to the DM's detail pre-dive briefing is critical. This way, i'd hopefully know what to anticipate esp current/drift situ. While I can 'trust' my buddy (even thou newly met) I honestly would not put 100% on him/her. Neither would he on me. Esp when we as mere recreational divers, are not trained in rescue as a speciality, shd the unthinkable happened.

So, when Barracuda Pt vis is >30m and i am downing 34.5m eyeing for the elusive big ones...I'd most probably be alone unless there was an alert extra-buddy to alert me to move up (Thanks D:-)

My personal point of view is that SIpadan is for the more experienced divers. Born-again D like me gets awed and carried away (literally).

But the DM shd be more alert & careful when handling a large group...


my inexperienced 0.02sen pov.
tupai lacks upper body strength, weak leg muscles, ciggied-lungs and suffering sunburnt nape.

[mocha]

only 5 dives??? hmm.... i guess he did his OW just to prepare for this Sipadan trip... real sad that it ended like this....

[chooitan]

In answer to Tupai's responsibility ratio.

Firstly, the person who is employed to lead the group by the resort is a dive guide. His qualification may be of DM or OWSI but he is a guide.

Responsibilty should come, foremost, from yourself
- to access the dive site and conditions
- to make the call of whether you should or is able enough to dive the particular site
- depth and time of the dive
- choice of buddy
- whether to abandon the dive whenever and wherever.

The next in line is the buddy. The buddy's responsibility is to be with each other and to look out for one another. That is why you never dive alone or assume that your buddy is with someone else. Remember the 1 min search rule?

Do remember this.
You have been trained and is a qualified diver. You are suppose to plan your dive and dive your plan. You are suppose to know your pressure group before the dive and know how much NDL you have. You are suppose to do your checks with your buddy, review hand signals and emergency procedures.

You are not suppose to follow the dive guide with total blind faith.
He dives 3 times a day, you don't. So you cannot assume you can do what he does.
His use of air ratio per dive is much less than yours- so that means his intake of N2 is also less than yours. I can go on forever to make this point.

You must remember that you are diving your own plan around his plan but the plan you dive is ultimately your buddy's and yours.

Please remember that after you are certified as a diver you are suppose to be able to find a buddy and go dive- just your buddy and you.

Many won't because they always follow a dive guide. Unfortunately many do so until they forget that they are suppose to plan their dive, calculate their NDL and PG, etc etc.

Do not assume that the guide will do all that on your behalf. That he is always right. Remember he is human and he can make a mistake...because assumptions can get you into trouble.

So if you want to dive, be a diver not a sheep!

[Snafu]

So if you want to dive, be a diver not a sheep!

Good One!!!

[Guest_diverjohn_*]

It is always Sad to hear of tragic diving accident especially with new divers.

I dive alot and sometimes with friends who are both experienced and inexperienced. I would strongly recommend that if you can afford it, engage an experienced DM or an Instructor to be your buddy if you are an inexperience diver especially in dive sites that are potentially dangerous like barracuda point in sipadan.

Barrucuda point is one of the best dive sites in the world but can also be notorious for its strong current especially near the bent. So sometimes a buddy cannot do much if he or she is also an inexperience diver. If I have inexperience diver in our group, I would always recommend them to pay extra to get another DM or Instructor from the dive shop to act as his buddy. The most it will cost is only an extra RM50 per dive but surely your life is worth morth than that.

[Snafu]

The most it will cost is only an extra RM50 per dive but surely your life is worth morth than that.

You are talking about divers from Malaysia ...... RM50 is a lot more then their own life

Anywhere they want to dive must be CHEAP..... CHEAPER

Taking courses must be cheap...everything wants cheap, quality dont say.

So RM50 ... Worth More then their LIFE for sure.

[chooitan]

I agree with John, in essence. But a few points need to be pointed out.

Firstly, the buddy system requires the buddy (be it 1 person or the whole group) to be responsible for each other. IE if one gets swept away, then the buddy should go along or inform the guide IMMEDIATELY.

Secondly, The buddy system requires you to do a 1 minute search u/w then surface if you have a missing buddy or a separation. Most divers I have met, treat separation extremely lightly and make assumptions that the buddy is with someone else and/or is alright. This atitude is wrong, irresponsible and can be, ultimately, tragic.

Thirdly, if the above 2 points were observed by the buddy. The worst case scenario would be of both of them being swept away. They would have then drifted with the current, ascended slowly to the surface, get buoyant and signal the boat for help. This again is within the confines of PADI Open Water Diver.

The buddy system was established for many reasons, the main one being that when you are with another person and the situation gets a little difficult, this knowledge that there is someone else with you can subdue the need to panic and create some sense of security and confidence. Afterall 2 minds are better than 1 to solve any problem.

I dived Sipadan on 7 different trips in 2005. Yes, there can be a current at Barracuda Point but not enough to cause a serious problem if the buddy system is observed.

This accident and a tragic waste of a life could have been caused by a dangerous mixture of apathy, assumption and non application of knowledge received.

If you cannot be responsible for both your appointed buddy and yourself, if you are apathetic and unconcerned for your buddy and yourself, then the sport of scuba diving is not your cup of tea.

ALL potential problem management scenarios like buddy separation, out/low on air, CESA and the BWRAF should be reviewed just before the 1st dive. This will allow you to be able to respond immediately to the situation if/when it arises.

There are no short cuts to learn diving, only short cuts to dying.

[pamelalim]

Anywhere they want to dive must be CHEAP..... CHEAPER

Taking courses must be cheap...everything wants cheap, quality dont say.

We call them the BIRD DIVER - *cheep* *cheep* *cheep*!

[bubble]

ALL potential problem management scenarios like buddy separation, out/low on air, CESA and the BWRAF should be reviewed just before the 1st dive. This will allow you to be able to respond immediately to the situation if/when it arises.

CESA only can be apply to max 12m depth

so at Barracuda point , mmm you may be out of air more then 12m so please think first before apply CESA if you are in more then 12m depth

[chooitan]

Bubble, I think you missed my point completely.

REVIEWING Problem Management is the point I am making. If you had reviewed them, then you will know when you can or cannot do a CESA, right? You will also know alternative actions you can take.

Thats why CESA should be reviewed BEFORE the 1st dive of any trip, along with the other problem management scenarios.

The point is- Review how to handle those problems before a dive so you have the solutions in the forefront of your mind if necessary.

For your information, Bubble, not the whole of Barracuda Point is deeper than 12m. CESA can be applied early in the dive or just before or during the safety stop.

[SeaDemon]

THE MODERATOR COMMENTS:

Personally, I feel that paying a DM to buddy-up with you is not a good thing to do on a frequent basis. Maybe as a newly certified diver, you still feel apprehensive about entering the water; but this does not mean that you should place your false sense of security in the DM. DMs are human too. The argument may be that DMs have more dives (remember, you need to have 20 logged dives, done your AOWD, your EFR and Rescue Diver course and must have 60 logged dives at the end to complete your DM course...therefore, the DM may not be that experienced after all). Your buddy and you can elect to swim closer to the DM at all times without having to fork out RM50 extra. If you still need to buddy up with a DM after 50 dives shows that you either do not dive frequently, or whoever taught you to dive, did not do too well in imparting his/her knowledge to you to make you a diver that is licensed to dive with a buddy upon certification.

Knowledge review must be conducted before the dive. The DM, in his/her briefings, will only talk about emergency procedures to try ring a bell and hope you remember, then go through some of the more common emergency procedures if you are not sure, and do a predive safety check. Your buddy and you should do the rest. A responsible dive operator should check the credentials of each diver (PIC and logbook), and if not comfortable with the level of diving of the group, elect to start off with either a shore dive or dive at a more easy site. AS A DIVER, ALWAYS REGARD YOUR FIRST DIVE OF THE TRIP AS YOUR CHECKOUT DIVE.

CESA can be conducted from 18m or shallower. During OWD course, you perform CESA in waters no deeper than 9m, blowing, humming or gurgling constantly through the regulator in your mouth until you reach the surface with a rate of ascent not exceeding 18m/min. In real life situation, however, when you experience out-of-air situation and with panic setting in, hopefully you remember your training and be able to do the same.

CMAS used to train their Deuxieme Echelon (Second Level) divers to do CESA from 40m...without the regulator in mouth. As long as you haven't busted your NDL, I would say it is okay to go straight to the surface.

I have had to go straight up to the surface thrice, from 24m, due to complacency. First was when I was doing a night dive videography, as usual I would flip over and do a rapid descent. The moment I reached the bottom, I realised something was amiss..I didn't have a regulator in my mouth. So I immediately do a CESA..and then slapped myself in the head for forgetting about my octopus.

The second time was when, in my hurry to dive, using twin tanks, BCD fully-deflated to get to depth soonest, I jumped in without my fins. I had to inflate and try maintain the 18m/min ascent rate.

The third time that happened was when I was diving with Zarir. It was the second dive of the day, and the first dive I had gone down to 30-35m and stayed for a while at depth. At 24m I realised I didn't have my weightbelt on. Finally, towards the end of the dive, I was already very buoyant and shot up to the surface. I blew all the air from my BCD prior to that, and blew all the air from my lungs on my way up, removing the regulator at that. I've never heard of anyone getting AGE from having no air in the lungs. However, I had a very minor DCS after and went for the O2 immediately to alleviate the condition.

If you have to avoid doing CESA, avoid it at all costs. Always be within reach of your buddy, and I must emphasise this...ALWAYS check your gauges...especially your air gauge. Make it a habit. You want to practise CESA, do it in shallower waters, on the first dive. And I would concur with chooitan: always review your emergency procedures and problem management BEFORE EACH DIVE. And know your depth and your NDL before you attempt a CESA. Never CESA when you've deco...and never dive to deco. Which in the end means, PLAN YOUR DIVES using your RDP before you dive, and never rely on dive computers except to guide you.

Thank you.

This post has been edited by SeaDemon: Jul 11 2006, 10:06 PM

[Snafu]

CESA Is THE LAST OPTION.

Anyone here do Diving Safety Analysis & Diving Hazard Analysis before diving?

I would suggest all divers to do scuba skill & emergency drill on the 1st & last dive.

Condition ur mind & body to re-act safely underwater in emergency situation.

[chooitan]

Snafu, I couldn't agree with you more. Skills should be reviewed every so often.

[Zippsy]

CESA only can be apply to max 12m depth

Really? That's news to me. And PADI. I'm not sure about other agencies though.


...and in reply to others, I believe PADI teaches that CESA is the penultimate option in most recreations situations. Sharing air from the same reg on ascent is a bit more difficult. Again, I am not sure what other agencies teach.

This post has been edited by Zippsy: Jul 11 2006, 12:22 PM

[Andy]

...and in reply to others, I believe PADI teaches that CESA is the penultimate option..

So, what is the ultimate option?

[bubble]

CESA only can be apply to max 12m depth

Really? That's news to me. And PADI. I'm not sure about other agencies though.


...and in reply to others, I believe PADI teaches that CESA is the penultimate option in most recreations situations. Sharing air from the same reg on ascent is a bit more difficult. Again, I am not sure what other agencies teach.

am I wrong?

I just saw this information when Padi instructor teach OW student safety teory .

[alextan]

Refer to PADI Open Water Diver Manual, pg 158.

[SeaDemon]

THE MODERATOR COMMENTS:

May I suggest the instructors from the various agencies clarify this matter? I am only butting in when there is a safety issue.

May I also quote from the instructor's manual the following:

CESA Performance Requirement
The student will perform a controlled emergency swimming ascent from a depth of 6-9 metres/20-30 feet and establish positive buoyancy at the surface.

The objectives of controlled emergency swimming ascent training are twofold:
To develop student ability to reach the surface independently in an emergency
situation; and to build student confidence in the ability to independently cope with
an abrupt air loss.

The controlled emergency swimming ascent is recommended as the primary
independent emergency option in the event of an abrupt apparent termination
of air during a scuba dive at depths of 9 metres/30 feet or less in which a diver
with an alternate air source is not immediately available.

I am NOT an instructor. I am merely a DM. So, instructors, please clarify this matter to the divers.

Thank you.

[putradiver]

CESA Is THE LAST OPTION.

Well, I guess CESA is not the last options. to me, Bouyant emergency ascent is the last options cos onced you execute you can't control anymore. In my opinion olso, CESA can be executed at any depth but it's limit depends on the diver's capability and limitation.

So, to sum up, practice and retraining are the key to overcome situations.

[alextan]

CESA Is THE LAST OPTION.

Anyone here do Diving Safety Analysis & Diving Hazard Analysis before diving?

I would suggest all divers to do scuba skill & emergency drill on the 1st & last dive.

Condition ur mind & body to re-act safely underwater in emergency situation.

Refer to PADI Open Diver Manual: CESA is not the last option.

[alextan]

THE MODERATOR COMMENTS:

May I suggest the instructors from the various agencies clarify this matter? I am only butting in when there is a safety issue.

May I also quote from the instructor's manual the following:

CESA Performance Requirement
The student will perform a controlled emergency swimming ascent from a depth of 6-9 metres/20-30 feet and establish positive buoyancy at the surface.

The objectives of controlled emergency swimming ascent training are twofold:
To develop student ability to reach the surface independently in an emergency
situation; and to build student confidence in the ability to independently cope with
an abrupt air loss.

The controlled emergency swimming ascent is recommended as the primary
independent emergency option in the event of an abrupt apparent termination
of air during a scuba dive at depths of 9 metres/30 feet or less in which a diver
with an alternate air source is not immediately available.

I am NOT an instructor. I am merely a DM. So, instructors, please clarify this matter to the divers.

Thank you.

PADI Open Water Diver Manual, Pg 158 stated very clearly.

SD: The above is correct according to PADI.

[Snafu]

Alextan .. CESA is the last option for me.

BTW ... I dont know anything about PADI S&P so cant comment on that.

[alextan]

Alextan .. CESA is the last option for me.

BTW ... I dont know anything about PADI S&P so cant comment on that.

Please take note that CESA is the last option to our sifu cikgu instructor snafu only, For PADI S&P CESA is not the last option. Have fun diving !!!

[Zippsy]

Alextan .. CESA is the last option for me.

IF (and that's a big hypothetical "if" because I know you would not let it happen to you...) you run out of all your air at 18 meters, you look around and realize that your buddy and all other divers are 15 meters away from you and chasing a manta that is swimming directly away from you, what is your FIRST option? Keep in mind that a buoyant ascent is likely your second option and kissing your arse goodbye is a third option.

What PADI teaches is that shallower than 12 meters, a CESA is preferred to buddy breathing and both those options come after a normal ascent (when low on air) or alternate air source breathing. Deeper than 12 meters, buddy breathing is preferred over a CESA assuming your buddy is close enough to you. This does not mean that CESA can only be done at depths shallower than 12 meters. Sometimes, it could be your only good option at 13, 18, 25 meters or deeper. I know some people that have done them from more than 20 meters. Finally, CESAs are always the preferred over buoyant ascents, when possible.

This post has been edited by Zippsy: Jul 13 2006, 09:07 AM

[pamelalim]

1) Buoyant Emergency Ascent is the last option.

BSAC strongly recommends the use of an alternative air source (AAS) as the prime method of assisted assent, and that all divers should carry such equipment.

Suitable AAS include an 'Octopus Rig' (a second 2nd stage fitted to the same 1st stage of the regulator, which includes the type fitted to a direct feed) In this case divers should be aware that a first stage failure on their regulator will affect both second
stages and render them in-operative.

A more strongly recommended alternative, however, is a totally independent air supply such as a 'Pony cylinder' (a small 2-3 litre auxiliary cylinder attached to the main cylinder with its own regulator assembly) or separate regulators attached to each cylinder of a matched pair. If a manifold is fitted to the pair of cylinders, making them into a 'twin-set', it should allow the diver the ability to isolate each cylinder/regulator assembly should a failure occur. Auxiliary cylinders having a capacity of less than 3 litres and ABLJ/BC mouthpieces are not considered adequate AAS.

2) CESA is performed when your buddy is out of reach. This is the third option. (It is preferred that you grab your buddy's octopus/AAS & do an assisted ascent rather than surfacing on your own.) Even if you are at 18m (supposing you don't dive beyond your limits as an Open Water Diver), you are out of air at 2.8bar pp, by the time you do a CESA to 8m, the ambient pressure would have reduced to 1.8bar pp. This would probably give you another gasp of air to alleviate your effort to reach the surface. Hence, you keep your demand valve (regulator mouthpiece) in your mouth as you do it.

[jim]

How about makin it a pesonal habit to monitor your pressure guage periodically? By doing so, u will know how much u hv left & no need to do CESA, AAS, buddy breathing nor bouyant ascent. Its safer isnt it? Notice some divers only check when the DM asked them to or when DM signal its time to surface?

[umiyushi]

How about makin it a pesonal habit to monitor your pressure guage periodically? By doing so, u will know how much u hv left & no need to do CESA, AAS, buddy breathing nor bouyant ascent. Its safer isnt it? Notice some divers only check when the DM asked them to or when DM signal its time to surface?

Alternatively, maybe can get a personal spare air.... those tiny little bottle type? Lagi got gaya? hahah

[nazadel]

Dive twin tank la, sure got enough air and even safer

[Snafu]

Alextan .. CESA is the last option for me.

IF (and that's a big hypothetical "if" because I know you would not let it happen to you...) you run out of all your air at 18 meters, you look around and realize that your buddy and all other divers are 15 meters away from you and chasing a manta that is swimming directly away from you, what is your FIRST option? Keep in mind that a buoyant ascent is likely your second option and kissing your arse goodbye is a third option.

What PADI teaches is that shallower than 12 meters, a CESA is preferred to buddy breathing and both those options come after a normal ascent (when low on air) or alternate air source breathing. Deeper than 12 meters, buddy breathing is preferred over a CESA assuming your buddy is close enough to you. This does not mean that CESA can only be done at depths shallower than 12 meters. Sometimes, it could be your only good option at 13, 18, 25 meters or deeper. I know some people that have done them from more than 20 meters. Finally, CESAs are always the preferred over buoyant ascents, when possible.

CESA b my last option.

JIM : THat is how it should be ... must be the training.

Umiyushi : That is one of the best method

Is funny with all this writes & advice....etc, HOW MANY DEATH SO FAR???

Best of all ... Still have plenty of air in the cylinder.

[jim]

How about makin it a pesonal habit to monitor your pressure guage periodically? By doing so, u will know how much u hv left & no need to do CESA, AAS, buddy breathing nor bouyant ascent. Its safer isnt it? Notice some divers only check when the DM asked them to or when DM signal its time to surface?

Alternatively, maybe can get a personal spare air.... those tiny little bottle type? Lagi got gaya? hahah

..... for GAYA, of course can.........

[pat_andee]

When dive accidents happenned, it already had HAPPENED. I guess it IS a sad & tragic ending to a beautiful diving holiday in which nobody wanted to be a part of it.

Pointing fingers and accusations thrown to buddies/DMs is a real demotivating move to make in such post accidents scenario, let it be that they are still suffering from the trauma that they have experienced. Emotionally, I have felt the same after losing a buddy in many of my dives and things get more tense when the search begins for the missing diver......an ordeal I just experienced less than a week ago. YOU WILL NEVER LIKE THAT FEELING, trust me!!

As a responsible diver and individual, ALWAYS take care of your own self first. That is even what they taught in Rescue Diver Course. I guess I am now pretty used to the verse made popular (among our group) by a very respectable diver in his 60's that has logged in more than 5000 dives: EVERY DIVER FOR HIMSELF. That reflects how important self discipline is in the SCUBA sports, and your buddy is there to look out for you and he or she is not liable for your life.

But I guess it all boils down to the diving industry in our country......some DMs are really local boys with probably (I quote again: Probably) no qualifications to do so, let alone to have only 1 DM for a group of 8 or more. I have experienced that before and you can never really count your life on them. If there's a law in diving, then restrict only 1 DM to 4 divers only. That would MINIMIZE risks, but again, anything can happen.

Scrutinize the diving industry or at least to pass a law that applies to all dive operators that all DMs must be qualified to lead a dive expedition; all boats to have pure oxygen, well stocked First Aid Kits and AEDs. Revoke their licence if they fail to adhere.....we pay for their service and they will have to ensure our emergency contingencies are met, at least.

SAFE DIVING GUYS! REMEMBER: EVERY DIVER FOR HIMSELF!!!!

[Snafu]

As a responsible diver and individual, ALWAYS take care of your own self first. That is even what they taught in Rescue Diver Course. I guess I am now pretty used to the verse made popular (among our group) by a very respectable diver in his 60's that has logged in more than 5000 dives: EVERY DIVER FOR HIMSELF. That reflects how important self discipline is in the SCUBA sports, and your buddy is there to look out for you and he or she is not liable for your life.


SAFE DIVING GUYS! REMEMBER: EVERY DIVER FOR HIMSELF!!!!

Good One & Is true.

[tupai]

there are amongst us here, some divers/instructors/dms or whatever title, who also organise dive trips and make some money whether as part-timer or fulltime career.

While I for one believe that it is the recreational diver's prerogative to seek out the cheapest, most affordable dive packages ...it is
1. I am al cheapo diver. I am a recreational Diver who cannot afford to dive every other weekend! I will pay more if I get
- people to help carry my tanks
- help me to heave on board after each dive
- PROPER Pre-Dive Briefing on site
- decent B&Breakfast & other meals
- attentive & responsible DM or Guide as some prefer it.

(bearing in mind that the groupers,skeleton prawns, titans,corals,mandarin fish, anemone, sharks etcetc don't get paid)

2. After paying the due amount in Full Before diving...How can I demand my money or a portion of my money back if I get terrible service? e.g. DM's lack of skill/experience or whatever and e.g. not conduct proper pre-dive, not being watchful for a bunch of wide-eyed recreational divers (difficult with 1 Dm for 8-12divers), not know where the resident pgymy seahorse or mandarin's residences, guiding us to the deep blue away from land - DM got disorientated perhaps

3. If I were a DM or Instructor who dive every weekend or so..man! I am also a 3000+ dives-champion Dive Guide here to
1. brand recreational diver (whole lifespending thus far less than RM15,000 in dive$ or approx 150dive$) as sheep
2. or a cheep cheep diver
or whatever else...

4. I am zen-thinking to go the next level up and be an instructor/Dm or whatever higher up status soon...when i have more money sooooooooonnnnn

having said the above...I also hold to the principle
"EVERY DIVER FOR HIMSELF" esp when you are down there...

tupai-on-narc

p/s many newbie OW divers get very intimidated by so-called 'professionals' ... so be a bit more patience to these divers (me included) simply because we are the paying customers...and without us, there is simply no career as a Guide. No? Oh, I forgot...many divers are tourists with US$

[tigershue]

p/s many newbie OW divers get very intimidated by so-called 'professionals' ... so be a bit more patience to these divers (me included) simply because we are the paying customers...and without us, there is simply no career as a Guide. No? Oh, I forgot...many divers are tourists with US$

Tupai bro. I agree totally.

Especially in MDC, better get 2nd and 3rd opinion on a particular skill.

With so many irresponsible divers around, it is even more important to upgrade our skill and take care of ourselves. And treat each dive as a potentially fatal dive.

If you stupid stupid go and follow some so called experienced diver, and when trouble comes, the idiot will leave your bloating corse behind, go topside, have a beer.

[PrincessAstroboy]

I was also told that was his only 5th dive after got certified. I don't understand why nobody in the group was watching closely the fresh new diver, not to mention his fiancee who is more experienced than him.

Firstly condolences to him and his family. But it angers me a little when I hear newbies being allowed to dive in sites that they're not prepared for.
Secondly: If he was on his 5th dive, why dive in Sipadan unprepared/ being inexperienced? It's like sending a lamb to the lion's den.
Thirdly: Agree with Pat that self-discipline & abstanence is extremely important. (gee I sound like your 5th grade sexual educational teacher)
Lastly: I guess there are irresponsible divers out there, hence I hope MDC will help to lessen incidents like this.

[Eskasi]

I am very sorry to hear this sad news.

However, I believe that as a new diver, he should have warned his DM and made it clear to his buddy that he needed to be watched.

I did this on my 1st 20 dives at least. It was not only safer for me but much more reassuring. If my buddy had the same experience level, I would inform the DM and ask him FULLY about conditions and any concerns I might have including what to do/expect in emergencies or separation. Each boat/operator has his own rules and plans. By doing so, the DM realized that

1) He needed to watch out for my team
2) He usually put me in the middle of a string of divers
3) He would check my air consumption more frequently than others. (It is the divers responsibility to tell the DM when you are at 100bar.....but try getting the DM's attention when he's not watching closely...not so easy)

On my 18th dive in the Red Sea, I chose NOT to participate on the 3rd dive of the day even though I REALLY wanted to go. It was out in the blue to look for hammerheads and Manta. I made this choice as my dive computer (Suunto - very conservative) said that I could only stay under for 20 mins at the depth which we were supposed to do. Also, I felt that I may have potentially been a little uncomfortable with disorientation and currents in that area. My buddy and his group saw a 6m wingspan Manta at a distance during that dive......however, I was happy with the fact that I managed to show restraint instead of taking a risk......The Manta will be there for me to see on another occasion.

In short, as much as it is partly the DM's job to play shepherd and watch his flock (in addition to being tour guide), the DM is not a mind reader. There is NO shame in admitting your beginner status and ASKING questions (or requesting more visual checks). Believe me, MOST DM's Instructors would be grateful for the info as their worst nightmare is having someone get injured or die on their watch!